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 OT: Windows text editors --- recommendations? 
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Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:06 am
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I had used Crimson Editor previously. Now I'm trying out Sublime; I just picked it because of the cool name. This is mostly for source-code, but some text files too.

On a related note, is there any LaTeX system available for Windows? I had previously used LaTeX a lot under Linux.

I may later on try to turn the text-editor into an IDE for my TOYF development system.

Any recommendations?

Also, btw, when I was an IBM360 assembly-language programmer, I used Xedit and liked it for working with data, especially when the data is in fixed-size fields. I could work with fields by themselves. One of my many bucket-list projects is to write a similar text-editor for PCs , and provide Forth rather than REXX as a scripting language --- my STRING-STACK.4TH should work well...


Last edited by BigEd on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

(add OT to title)



Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:16 pm
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Hugh Aguilar wrote:
On a related note, is there any LaTeX system available for Windows? I had previously used LaTeX a lot under Linux.

I may later on try to turn the text-editor into an IDE for my TOYF development system.

I just downloaded VIM and will try it.

Many years ago I tried VIM and absolutely hated it. I can't remember why now though.


Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:32 pm
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Hugh Aguilar wrote:
I had used Crimson Editor previously. Now I'm trying out Sublime; I just picked it because of the cool name. This is mostly for source-code, but some text files too.

On a related note, is there any LaTeX system available for Windows? I had previously used LaTeX a lot under Linux.

How about http://www.codecogs.com/ . I use their online version (then the OS doesn't matter); but you can license the software to download too.

Quote:
Windows text editors --- recommendations?

I've been using MultiEdit 7.0 for DOS (the last one for DOS) for 20+ years and it has been absolutely outstanding, with a bazillion features, macros, unlimited customizability, and a clear, one-inch-thick paper manual. Even though it was DOS, you could have basically unlimited file size and do any screen size your video driver would support (I use 132 columns x 43, 50, or 60 lines) and I've had up to 36 files open at once (although I don't think there's any practical limit), windowed and tiled in various ways. It is available for Windows at http://multiedit.com/ ; and although it's hard to imagine it getting better than my old version was, 20+ years has undoubtedly brought a ton of advancement. Unfortunately it's not available yet for Linux, so I'm not using it on my Linux machine except under DOSBox which is far from ideal.

The new king of the hill in text editors—although it's hard to imagine anything being better than MultiEdit (if it even is)—is UltraEdit, at https://www.ultraedit.com/ . A friend who owns a small software company uses it in his office, for all his programmers.

Quote:
my STRING-STACK.4TH should work well...

I read (or at least skim) every post on this forum; but I don't remember coming across this. Do you have a description of it? Although my applications make pretty minor use of string editing, I've often wondered about the possibility of a string stack.

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Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:30 am
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Garth wrote:
I've been using MultiEdit 7.0 for DOS (the last one for DOS) for 20+ years and it has been absolutely outstanding, with a bazillion features, macros, unlimited customizability, and a clear, one-inch-thick paper manual. Even though it was DOS, you could have basically unlimited file size and do any screen size your video driver would support (I use 132 columns x 43, 50, or 60 lines) and I've had up to 36 files open at once (although I don't think there's any practical limit), windowed and tiled in various ways. It is available for Windows at http://multiedit.com/ ; and although it's hard to imagine it getting better than my old version was, 20+ years has undoubtedly brought a ton of advancement. Unfortunately it's not available yet for Linux, so I'm not using it on my Linux machine except under DOSBox which is far from ideal.

MultiEdit was cofounded by John Perona. He had previously worked at Hartronix (later to be called Testra) where he worked on their bit-slice Forth computer (advertised in "Forth Dimensions". It was hoped to become the standard PC because it was faster than the 8088 and it had a multitasking OS whereas PC-DOS was basically warmed-over CP/M --- this didn't happen --- everybody just went with the IBM-PC because it was from IBM, despite the abysmally low quality.

Later on John Perona worked at Integrated Technology Corp. (ITC) and I was his coworker. He had already started MultiEdit at that time and was on his way out from ITC. I've seen both his Forth and C code and wasn't much impressed with either. I did like MultiEdit however. :-) Later on when I left ITC and worked at Testra, I wrote MFX using MultiEdit. I was not aware that there was a Windows version, but I'll look into that. I'll also look into those other two editors that you mentioned.

Garth wrote:
Quote:
my STRING-STACK.4TH should work well...

I read (or at least skim) every post on this forum; but I don't remember coming across this. Do you have a description of it? Although my applications make pretty minor use of string editing, I've often wondered about the possibility of a string stack.

I've not mentioned it here. It will be part of the next novice-package release. For now, I can email copies of some of the new novice-package files to those who are interested --- a beta-copy.

STRING-STACK.4TH is some of the best Forth I've done in years. It has COW (copy-on-write). When strings are copied on the stack, such as with DUP$ OVER$ etc., only a reference is copied. This is called a "derivative" string, as compared to a "unique" string that contains the actual string. Only if necessary is a derivative converted into a unique. The conversion is done under the hood --- the user can program assuming that everything on the stack is unique --- the user doesn't have to worry about, or even know about, the concept of derivative strings.

STRING-STACK.4TH is primarily designed for pattern-matching and extraction of substrings. There are a lot of temporary strings used, such as pattern strings. Most of the time, these start out as derivatives and never get converted into uniques, so the system is quite fast. I think I'm ahead of any regular-expression package available anywhere --- I don't like regular-expressions (they force me to learn a very prickly and ugly interpreted language, and they don't do what I want most of the time). STRING-STACK.4TH was written to support natural-language analysis --- one of my bucket-list projects is a program to convert Ido text into English and Spanish, so Ido can function as a bridge between English and Spanish --- here in Arizona I see a lot of antagonism between brown and white, especially now that Trump is President, and I believe that better communication could lead to peace --- of course, I'm assuming that both sides are smart enough and motivated enough to learn Ido, which is somewhat doubtful.


Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:45 am
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Hugh Aguilar wrote:
On a related note, is there any LaTeX system available for Windows? I had previously used LaTeX a lot under Linux.
TeXLive seems to be available for Windows: https://www.tug.org/texlive/
It's now the standard TeX/LaTeX package for Linux, and I use it all the time. I have no experience with the Windows variant, but if it's anything like the *nix version it should work great.


Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:12 am
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Tor wrote:
Hugh Aguilar wrote:
On a related note, is there any LaTeX system available for Windows? I had previously used LaTeX a lot under Linux.
TeXLive seems to be available for Windows: https://www.tug.org/texlive/
It's now the standard TeX/LaTeX package for Linux, and I use it all the time. I have no experience with the Windows variant, but if it's anything like the *nix version it should work great.

Thanks for the tip --- I'll try it too. :-)

I had Ubuntu on a computer in the past, and I had an editor that was specifically for LaTeX (not the one you mentioned, but I don't remember the name). It was ponderously slow. I must have done something wrong with the installation of Ubuntu and/or the editor. I also wasn't able to get wifi to work. I ended up giving up on the whole thing and buying another computer with Windows pre-installed. I should try again though. Reading the manual might help...

I recently had to give up on a laptop and buy a new one. Windows just got increasingly slow over time. I also had some hardware problems with the screen, so it had to either be repaired or replaced, and WalMart has laptops for as little as $279, so I replaced. I may convert the old one into a desktop computer by buying a monitor for it --- if I do this, I would also convert it into a Linux box and try that again.

I have often wondered if Windows is designed to degrade over time in order to force the customer to buy a new computer. :-(

I'm not happy with Windows. I noticed that I can't set my password unless I'm connected to the internet, so Microsoft is keeping track of those passwords. I really get the impression that I have no privacy at all --- Microsoft or the NSA or etc. are presumably able to access all of my files at any time --- I read the book, "The Snowden Files," which I found quite disturbing. :-(
It really bugs me when I get advertisements or suggestions that are tailored to me --- how do they know that stuff about me, except by snooping on me? --- the implication seems to be that I have no identity except as a consumer who will buy things, but I don't really see myself that way. I would like an OS that gave me some privacy. I don't really have any big secrets --- the most interesting thing I'm doing is designing TOYF, but I've already posted the design publicly and nobody has shown any interest --- I just don't like the idea of being snooped on.

Have any of you tried Menuet? That would seem to fit in with this forum's interest in off-beat hardware and software. I doubt that any OS is going to be secure because the browser is insecure.

Another weird thing I've noticed, is that my browser keeps switching the zoom size randomly when I'm typing, rather than just hold it at 100% --- this seems to only happen on this forum --- I've not noticed this anywhere else, although I've only had the laptop for a short while so I'm not sure about that.


Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:45 pm
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I'm going to take the tangent on OS choices...

Links for MenuetOS (I haven't tried it myself):
"MenuetOS is an operating system with a monolithic preemptive, real-time kernel, including video drivers, all written in FASM assembly language, for 64-bit and 32-bit x86 architecture computers, by Ville M. Turjanmaa. It has a graphical desktop, games, and networking abilities (TCP/IP stack), yet it still fits on one 1.44 MB floppy disk. On an Intel Pentium MMX 200 MHz it can boot in 5 seconds."

I use Linux, mostly, including ChromeOS, but these days usually Ubuntu. I've used some small RAM-only distributions in the past, like KNOPPIX and TinyCoreLinux.

MINIX might be of interest here.
"The main goal of the project is for the system to be fault-tolerant by detecting and repairing its own faults on the fly, with no user intervention. The main uses of the system are envisaged to be embedded systems and education. As of 2017, MINIX 3 supports IA-32 and ARM architecture processors"

If you like unusual operating systems and are concerned about privacy, have a look at Qubes.
https://www.qubes-os.org

RISC OS is worth a look if you have a Raspberry Pi and are prepared to change all your habits and expectations. It's from Acorn's 32-bit offerings, with a history going back to the mid-80s. The full version is a WIMP environment with a TCP/IP stack and a choice of web browsers. There's a tiny (pico) version which boots very quickly to BASIC - with an embedded ARM assembler.


Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:14 pm
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Hugh Aguilar wrote:
I doubt that any OS is going to be secure because the browser is insecure.


BigEd wrote:
MINIX might be of interest here.


It was recently discovered that some modern Intel CPU's are running MINIX internally on a hidden X86 core.
It has full control of the hardware, includes drivers, networking stacks and even a web server!!!
So, no OS is going to be secure because there's a second OS always running on the same hardware, and exploits have been released.

Sounds like 'Tinfoil Hat' territory, alas it's not. Best prepare for some 'Spock eyebrow action' and keep reading.

Andrew Tanenbaum himself (creator of MINIX), was unaware of Intel's decision to shove MINIX into their CPU's, see his letter to Intel here.
http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/intel/

Google, Cisco, and a of couple lesser knowns, are VERY unhappy.
They suggest (to Intel): "Replace your exploit-ridden firmware with a Linux kernel"
https://schd.ws/hosted_files/osseu17/84 ... 0Linux.pdf

MINIX — The most popular OS in the world, thanks to Intel
https://www.networkworld.com/article/32 ... intel.html

Disabling Intel ME 11 via undocumented mode
http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disa ... el-me.html


Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:17 pm
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Quote:
They suggest (to Intel): "Replace your exploit-ridden firmware with a Linux kernel"

Hmm, I think they are suggesting this to the tech community: although it would be nice for Intel to ship a trustworthy CPU, the video I saw with this title was about reconfiguring and removing as much of the unwanted extras as possible.


Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:48 pm
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Perhaps not OT at all for this forum, a few days ago I came across this page about Samuel Falvo's Kestrel computer and the design goals, addressing problems mentioned above. You may remember that he started with a 65816, but now he's on to 64-bit RISC-V-compatible processor technology. I especially like his top five bullet points of what a PC ought to be. I've kept a tab open to it because I hope to get around to reading many of his three dozen posts linked there.

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Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:00 pm
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Yes, a bottom up build of an OS and browser on a trusted CPU might be the only way, if your distrust or scepticism runs deep enough - but it's a very long road indeed. As with all questions of security, you really have to have a threat model and to have done your research, otherwise you can spend a lot of effort solving the wrong problem.

(We should note, for example, that this forum is not served securely over https. Therefore there's no great technical barrier to our messages, private or public, from being intercepted or modified, or our sessions - including moderator and admin sessions - from being hijacked. As it happens, the forum is hosted on shared hosting, which is not immune to compromise, and therefore moving to https would only improve some subset of risks.)


Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:08 pm
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BigEd wrote:
Hmm, I think they are suggesting this to the tech community: although it would be nice for Intel to ship a trustworthy CPU, the video I saw with this title was about reconfiguring and removing as much of the unwanted extras as possible.

Thanks Ed, I think you're right. I must have misinterpreted something I read.
The video clarifies that the target audience is indeed the tech community.

Back to the topic of Text editors.
Textadept is described as "A fast, minimalist, and remarkably extensible cross-platform text editor"
https://foicica.com/textadept/

Configuration is via Lua scripting which makes it very extensible, but may put some folks off a bit.


Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:10 pm
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One editor I use for text editing is Ultra-Edit. It has a number of features that I like. It came with Ultra-Compare which is useful for comparing and merging changes in files.

Quote:
a few days ago I came across this page about Samuel Falvo's Kestrel compute

Good reference. It looks like his project has been put on the back burner for now. The project shows some evolution from it origins. Apparently he's had some difficulty getting external ram working for his project. This has been one of my nightmares as well. I did manage to get the PSRAM he mentioned on the FPGA board working, I think my PSRAM controller is on GitHub probably in a non-obvious location. If only vendors would put simple static ram on the boards, but I guess they figure there's enough ram in the FPGA.
It's too bad that the high-performance DRAM has so much controller overhead. It makes it difficult for a hobbyist to get things working.

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Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:25 pm
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Garth wrote:
Perhaps not OT at all for this forum, a few days ago I came across this page about Samuel Falvo's Kestrel computer and the design goals, addressing problems mentioned above. You may remember that he started with a 65816, but now he's on to 64-bit RISC-V-compatible processor technology. I especially like his top five bullet points of what a PC ought to be. I've kept a tab open to it because I hope to get around to reading many of his three dozen posts linked there.

My father is in the hospital with serious issues --- I will be incommunicado for a while.

If any interest develops on the TOYF or 65ISR I will visit this forum later on to read it --- I do want feedback --- I won't respond any time soon though.

:-(


Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:41 am
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Sorry to hear that Hugh.


Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:58 am
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